On the spectrum of social ideologies, many people will deem the use of violence as toxic. However, I disagree. It depends on context and intent.
A few minutes ago, I was surfing Youtube for a good tune to play in the background, while I do some work, when I happen on a clip from Goodfellas. The title of the clip is “Goodfellas Sexual Harassment Scene”. I’ve seen this particular clip about half a dozen times before and once, during the actual movie. It’s pretty brutal when Henry smacks the sexual harasser multiple times. I am pretty neutral towards his action of brutal smack down. I think I would take the same action, given the right situation and mood.
So of course, in my curiosity to see if anyone mentioned Gillette in the comments, I scrolled down. Lone an behold, I see a couple.
This should have been the new Gillette ad
Henry didn’t use Gilette that day
Again, the stupidity in these comments annoy me. These people still have no clue and never will they realize the Gillette commercial has nothing to do with what Henry did, nor did it have anything to do with men who don’t treat women as inferior beings. Then again, unless of course “S” and “in4moon” are abusive toxic men themselves.
Anyway, I scrolled down some more and found the following comment.
This type of behavior now labeled as toxic masculinity. It used to be called being a man and defending those you care about
Actually, he’s wrong. However, he later responded to a comment by another person. Here is the rest of this conversation to give you context.
Toxic masculinity is way different from the behavior show in the scene.
@Александр Перчов actually one of the proponents of toxic masculinity is the use of violence to solve a problem. In this instance the character uses violence to solve a problem. His behavior today would be labeled as toxic masculinity because he used violence to solve a problem when he didnt “have to.”
Bear 24 that’s not right though.. sexual assault or harassment IS Toxic masculinity. If someone uses violence to solve a problem I consider that a solution to the problem, it may not be the best solution, but I don’t consider it as “toxic”
@Peaceful RAGE sexual harrassment and sexual assault is not toxic masculinity it is sexual assault. Remember women commit sexual harrasment and assault too. Toxic masculinity is a theoretical concept that is supposed to provide the explanation as to why the assault was committed. And you need to do your research because use of violence to solve problems is absolutely part of the theoretical concept of toxic masculinity. Toxic masculinity is not real. A man does not commit sexual assault because he is or has engaged in toxic masculinity. He commits sexual assault because he has low self esteem, no empathy, no morality, is not able to handle emotions like an adult, and is basically just an all around piece of shit and sorry excuse for a human being. Masculinity is a beautiful thing and should be encouraged not attacked. I believe the term should maybe be toxic machismo? Because machismo is definitely a negative set of behaviors and beliefs that is unique to men. Also consider this: women commit sexual assaults and engage in sexual harrassment as well. Not in as high numbers but high enough to be relevant statistically. So if women commit sexual harrassment and assaults then how can sexual harrasment and assault be toxic masculinity?
Peaceful RAGE so true.. and side note.. be a man is so bloody stupid.. it’s just incurred men who need a reason to use violence..or something like that..
Frankly, the way he handled it with violence truly is toxic.
@Coolt XZ ok so the question that of course no one will answer….women commit sexual harrasment and assault too. So knowing that women commit it also how can you possibly say that it is toxic masculinity?
it really, really isn’t
It matters on its situation
So here was my response to both Bear 24 and Peaceful Rage.
Toxic masculinity is not about beating another guy up for harassing a woman. Toxic masculinity is when a man thinks he is superior to a woman and treat women as objects to be used.
@Bear 24 @Peaceful Rage – you’re both right and wrong. Toxic masculinity is when men think women are inferior and treat them as objects to be used. Sexual harassment can be a result of toxic masculinity, but in itself, is not toxic masculinity. Using violence to solve a problem, again, depends on context and intent. If it’s used as a result to punish and/or deter sexual harassment, then it’s not toxic, but if it’s used as a means to step on women because she is a woman, then it is toxic.
I would like to extend my comment, that toxic masculinity is also about dictating how men should behave, what they should wear, how they should act, what they’re supposed to say and think about. This is perpetuated by women who believe the same things. Is it completely wrong? No. People are allowed their own lifestyle choices. However, even if a culture of humanity wishes to live in such a way, this lifestyle should be not pushed onto the rest of the population. If it works for you, great, then keep it within your community of like minded people, but don’t push those same sort of superiority-over-women type of thinking onto everyone else. Ultimately, this sort of behaviour does more harm than good, but again, so is drinking alcohol and speeding. ;)
Anyhow, back to my original point. The following is a clip from Superman (2013). An excellent example of toxic masculinity is what the table of truckers were doing to the waitress, especially the guy who grabbed the waitress.
Now, note intent and context of both parties.
When Clark Kent confronted the trucker who grabbed the waitress, he initially did so in an assertively verbal way. The trucker said a bunch of demeaning things, tried to push Clark Kent, then dumped beer on him. All of what the trucker did was toxic behaviour. Clark Kent standing up to the bully was not toxic behaviour.
Later, when the trucker left the diner, he found his truck to be completely demolished. What Clark Kent did was of course, a crime in the legal sense, but what he did was not toxic behaviour. We can safely say what Clark Kent did was punish the trucker, as a social justice warrior.
Right, for all of you out there who think an SJW is your typical basement dwelling white knight, think again. SJW’s come from both the right and left of the social spectrum. On the right, we have the usual religious zealots and snowflake neo conservatives. On the left, we have the obnoxious scream-til-they-think-they-have-made-their-point and of course, the usual basement dwelling white knights. Fortunately, not all SJW’s are like them. Some of the SJW’s I know on the right, have served in the military, who speak out against injustice, who support other veterans and defend people from all walks of life no matter their religion. Most of the SJW’s I know on the left contribute to society in grand amazing ways such as fighting alongside the First Nations’ people, proactively try to go as green as possible, spread the good word of their religious beliefs and perpetuate those good words into action.
You know what good masculinity is? To use your masculinity in a way that benefits others, as well as yourself, not to use it as a means to harm others, and to perpetuate your ideals without asserting superiority. Again, all within context of the situation.
Superman was not behaving in a toxic manner. The trucker was. Henry Hill was not behaving in a toxic manner. The Corvette owner was.
Intent and context matters a lot.